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Bulls and Bears

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The Irs 4, Irs 4, Brenda 4, Jonas 4, John 3, Bny Mellon 2, Husqvarna 2, Advair 2, Benghazi 2, Tesla 2, America 2, Ben Stein 2, Lowe 2, Gary 2, Obamacare 1, Nixon 1, Capone 1, Petuneral 1, Adam 1, Toby 1,
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  FOX Business    Bulls and Bears    News/Business. The latest market  
   news; the week ahead on Wall Street. (CC)  

    May 12, 2013
    8:00 - 8:31am EDT  

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>> we'll see you tomorrow. >> the tax man in trouble. growing calls to investigate the irs after the agency, which is supposed to remain neutral, admits to targeting conservative groups right before the 2012 election. organization using the names patriots or tea party in their application for tax exempt stus were flagged for further review. the irs now apologizing, but the bigger issue developing. this is the same agency set to enforce the new health care law. someone here says watch out. folks opposing obamacare could be the next target. hi, evyone. i'm brenda buttner. this is "bulls and bears." here they are. gary, tobin, jonas, john, and
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david. nice to have you. welcome to everybody. toby, you said based on history, anyone who goes against the health care law should be ready for an audit? >> yeah. the history started with kennedy. get back to his enemies. there was audits. nix is famous for this. it's been a historic per view of the president to go after his or her enees with audits. by the way, that iss about the biggest way y can get to somebody's face and this type of attack, if you were to not pay obamacare or be anti-this, or you have a nonprofit corporation against oakey's petuneral home & crematory, i'd be very careful. >> this is the agency that is supposed to enforce obamacare. say you don't pay a fine as toby brings up, what do you think this could mean for taxpayers who aren't necessarily conservative? >> well, unless something is done about it, it means if you stick your neck out and oppose the government in any way, you could be audited no matter who is in power. that has happened. toby is right, for many decades
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now. look at the tax system. we have 72,0 plus pages because people have bought off crooked politicians for so many decades that they've gotten so many favors that there is exemptions, 72,000-plus pages. if you get audited you hire accountants and lawyers and prove your case, you still are to pay your accountants and lawyers. it's a rotten system. that needs to be abolished and go to some type of flat tax. >> neil: gary b, the irs apologized. does that mean there might be somethg more behind that? what do you think that means basically for taxpayers? >> i think this is scary, brenda. i hope this issue does not go away. look, the irs might have apologized, but you can almost guarantee they didn't do this on their own. they had marching orders from someone. i hate to be a black helicopter, you know, conspiracy theorist. >> come o give it a shot. >> where did the orders come from? yeah, it was one thing when nixon had his enemies list and that was bad.
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this sounds even worse. i mean, look, the irs, that's how they caught capone, for crying out loud. here the irs going after common citizens, that's scary. next we'll have the militia marching in and ordering the people to do this and that at the government's whim. i don't like this. >> david, are you worried? >> i'm not worried and i should hold back on speculation. i think that would be the better part of it and let the investigation take its course. it is problematic and it looks like it was targeting and that shouldn't be done by an organization or an agency such as the irs being independent agency. however, i will say this, that those that elect not to secure insurance and therefore, are owing of a fee or a penalty, yes, then you would think the irs is going to make sure you paid that fee. beyond that, i would not subject to fears that the irs is coming after you. but you will owe them a fee if
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you do not provide insurance for yourself. >> david, get audited. look, i'm getting audited right now. get audited and be right. you're going to hire accountants -- >> that's correct, i agree. >> whether you're right or not, makes no difference. you're going to spend a fortune fighting the government. it's ridiculous. >> that couldappen whether obamacare or not. people are audited that would rather not go through audits. >> no, no. that's not the issue here. that's not the issue. nobody wants an audit. this is being targeted because of your political beliefs. jonas, weigh in here. >> i will weigh in by saying i think the irs is a wonderful agency and doesn't deserve any auditing and that's why -- i actually think this will go away quickly because no one will aggressively audit the irs because of the potential backlash. no one wants to go after the audit. they'll put you on a black list. this has been going on for a long time of the people use it as their administration's tool.
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under bush in the 's, he fired all the estate tax lawyers so they wouldn't go after wealthy people. so everyone has done their own little thing when they're in office to the irs. now, we don't know the full story here. it sounds really bad at this level. personally, i hope they went after all the organization, including the left wing organizations 'cause i don't understand why all these people are getting attempt exempt status anyway. i think it's a legitimate audit, not if you target toward one group. they may have done that and that would be bad. >> now, toby, the white house now, we've got them dealing with two potentially explosive scandals. there is this irs issue. then there is also the benghazi talking points omitting the words terror. if we see them the white house embroiled in scandal what, do you think the markets will do? >> they have watched a little of that and gone up. if you were in a situation where you got bogged down in defense of this and his agenda was not
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being passed, i dare to say the market may like that. >> oh, david, what do you think? >> if i might add, benghazi has been going on for seven months and as toby just pointed out and i will add, record high levels in the stock market. so i don't see either of them affecting what the market registers down on the street. >> yeah, but gary b, we really saw big news breaking late this week on both of these issues. if this gets worse, what do you think will happen to the markets? >> well, i tend to agree with toby that it could be viewed positively. i think all we can do is look back at history and we're in kind of embroiled in this same kind of thing. it might be the same kin of thing under nixon. th market pretty much moved sideways. that might have been for a lot of different reasons. but i don't think anyone -- as much as the right might not care for the current administration's policies, i don't think anyone wants to see a whole scandal
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develop. i don't think anyone wants to see a scandal develop under clinton. we muddled through, got through it. but i'd rather just have him be ineffective rather than scandalous. >> that's the issue, john. it's noso much that wall street would hope for a scandal, but might hope that the obama administration agenda might not be furthered. >> i think they will. look, it's already been stalled. they've got such discord in washington, d.c., nothing is getting passed. all three of the last two term presidents had some type of scandal. none of them greatly affected the market either way. i don't think this does either. >> jonas, what do you think? >> you know, look, if the irs can get money, right or wrong, from people without having to raise the general tax rate, in theory, that's good for our debt and market. that said, this administration, love it or not, has been good for the stock marke you wouldn't want a president to see good returns on the mark to be in a scandal, have leave office, that would not be good
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for the stock market. testifies bad fort market, we were down 50% over the last three years, then you can say yeh, this could be great if we got new leadership, but i don't think that is the case. >> toby? >> this story is not going away. the market probably needs a little rest here anyway. if we get aest now, that's healthy fort market. don't confuse it with people voting against the market because of obama problems. >> okay. speak of the health care law, the white house scrambling to protect it from the train wreck it's been called and now one democrat is calling it a constitutional right. what about your rights when it comes to paying for it? that's in an hour. up here first, the president out pushing new programs to stimulate the economy. but with signs the economy is rebounding even with the we went out and asked people a simple question:
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>> brenda: president obama hitting the road with his latest plan to juice up the economy with billions of dollars in new spending. but look what's happening amid mandatory spending cuts. jobs are improving, housing is heating up, and the dow is taking off, charging past 15,000 this week. so gary b, is more spending the last thing we need right now? >> brenda, like dejavu all over again. they tried it wi the stimulus. we still have, including people who have given up not looking
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for jobs, 14% unemployment! that's number one. two, in europe, austerity, you know what the countries that actually cut spending over there? they're the ones growing. most of the countries never cut spendin over there. look, brenda, the government cannot create jobs. when you create a job, you're meeting a need. the government can't just say okay. now everyone needs green energy. so we're going to create jobs there. it just doesn't work. all they do is move money from private to public and we've already seen back to fdr that is an inefficient way to manage the ecomy. >> brenda: david, is more stimulus what the economy needs right now? >> i think continued stimulus, we are onto the road to recovery, but to make it robust and to keep it going, i think we need to continue not to put our foot on the brake, but to continue the path that wee been going. that is 37 months ofonsecutive job growth and i might add, to
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gary's point, in the private sector. 6.8 million jobs in the private sector created. so it's not just government spending to hire people. in fact, government jobs have be on the decline. it's in the private sector and that's what's going on. that's what the president is speaking to in creating the partnerships with universiti and private firms, which have been on the increase in the last two years as well. >> brenda: john layfield, with still stagnant wages, millions of people unemployed, is stimulus what we need right now? >> we have the biggest stimulus in history, brenda. we had toorrow 40 cents on every delay from somewhere overseas. we put a trillion dollars in this economy, you count the buy america bonds and stimulus plan, it's great quoting the numbers. the real number is we have the lowest labor fce participation rate since jimmy carter, 1979. we're going to throw more money
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at it. we're going to have more smoke and mirrors. we need a comprehensive plan. we're the only country that doesn't have a comprehensive plan. >> brenda: jonas, is spending more money good or bad for the economy? >> in a recession, it's good. the government can make jobs. tesla, which was just -- manufacturing jobs made with government loans for green energy. is that a good use of taxpayer money? probably not. in fact, with the stock market at all-time high, i don't think it's the time to launch new stimulus programs. it's something you do in a crisis and save the next round of stimulus spending for such an event. >> brenda: toby, john did make a good point about we've got stimulus going right now with the fed printing money. >> yeah. it's interesting the president, who i think does feel he's smarter than a lot of people can never getis armround the idea that these plans he's doing
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will make nothing in terms of job creation. yet, the big stuff that could create job creation, they're going to go after. so maybe if this just keeps him sort of quiet and happy and he can start new centers of innovation, because i know everything big that happened in the united states came from a center of innovation. >> brenda: go ahead. >> if i might add, we already learned from the connial budget office that with the sequester and its austerity, we are losing -- we could lose 750,000 jobs. why would we be lowering our unemployment rate down to 5 and then self-inflict upon the american people a sequestration -- >> do you see the paper? million to million and a half jobs and people aren't hired because they don't want the health care programs. we're real good at shooting ourselves in the foot. >> brenda: sequester hasn't done much, has it? >> no, exactly. you talk about cutting around the edge, my god, we can't get by with the government cutting
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2% of an increased budget, we're really in terrible shape. the other thing is, remember, all this money that the government is spending is just comin from you and i. it's coming from the private sector. so jonas says oh, my god, tesla, i'll see h tesla and raise the other goofy companies that the government pumped up. >> brenda: that's one i want to get in on. what do sea instructors and cruise ship work divorce to do with the immigration reform bill? an answer that could give taxpayers a big chill. that's at the bottom of the hour. up here first, think that sticker shockt the store is bad now? wait 'til you mother nature has in store for you. get ready to get glled
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>> brenda: holy cow. beef prices hitting a record high. so pricey, even mickey d's is cutting the angus burg fresh its menu and shoppers have nature to worry about. a cold spring delaying the planting season and a fruit disease hitting florida's orange crops. john, how bad is this going to get for us at the grory store? >> i think it's going to get bad for middle america, especially, because you look at corn prices have doubled in the last four years, mainly due to this ridiculous corn based ethanol plan we have. beef prices at a ten-year high. you have gas prices that are still high as well. look, you have a lot of
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deflationary measures, tech components that have a deflationary pressure. this affects the ordinary american, food and gas prices, these continue to go up. that is going to hurt. that's real america. >> brenda: okay. talking about ordinary americans, gary b, do you feel inflationhen you go to the grocery store? >> i don't. i don't think the normal person does. we have so many more options -- first of all, the government doesn't even measure -- what they don't measure is what this whole concept of the chain cpi, government has another index called the personal consumption expenditure. basically that means when you go in and you see beef has shot up 30, 40%, what do most people do? they buy pork or they buy chicken. they substitute. they wait for things on sale. they use groupon. they adapt and move and buy things on-line, get it delivered, whatever. they work around this. yes, if we were locked in like we were back in he 50s and 60s, my gosh, youon't buy beef, that's it. that's your one protein that you got to live without.
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yes. then it would be completely different story. now we have so many more option, grocery stores competing with wamart and things like that. it's not going to affect the average -- >> brenda: i don't know, toby. beef is it and mcdonald's, as long as they don't take away the big mac, we're okay. but what do you think? >> you're in my favorite place fell frisco, the steak is $85. people are, still going to dll frisco. somehow that's not hurt people. what really hurt is this drought. we forgot that we damaged these pasture lands. it takes a long time for them to come back. the combination of our stupidity with mandating ethanol, and then the actual land has been so damaged by drought, we're going to have high prices until people quit buying buying and all of an we'll get a surplus because we have extra beef. >> david? we're seeing higher prices?
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>> going more on gary's point with the consumer price index, whch is a measure of inflationary trends, what we saw in there is that the food index had gone up 1.5. but then on the other hand, energy index went do 1.6. so kind of washes it, that's why you didn't see overall movement with regard to inflationary trends and i don't think it's something that in the short run is to worry about and that we need to keep on the course of steadying the robust recovery that we need to achieve going down the line over the next several months. >> brenda: let's forget about the government's measures right now. jonas, i know -- >> how about dog food? >> brenda: but basically, basically ordinary americans going to be feeling something from this? >> their satisfaction will be lower. first of all, luckily the big mac doesn't have a lot of beef in i so they don't have to cut that from the menu. gary is correct in that people
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will switch out. they go to a filet of fish because that didn't go up and that's what they'll cut. however, in a songer economy with less slack in the labor market, people don't switch. that's why prices spike more in the real estate boom. we saw gas go up and stay up. we saw a lot of commodities. 'cause people are like, i'm stick going to have the angus burger. they're going to switch, which means they're not as happy. now they're having filet of fish. so our satisfaction is lower. that's the impact. >> all right. >> brenda: that's the last word. thanks, guys. and thanks to david for joining us. these guys got busted for trying to pull off a $45 million atm heist. now get the name protecting your bank funds that could also make bank funds that could also make you a
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>> brenda: predictions. toby? >> wal-mart wants to be in the banks business and they will be. i think it does help them. i think they're up 25 to 30%? >> brenda: b? >> forget about that electric tesla stuff. i like ford. i think it's up 30% by the end of the year. >> brenda: toby? >> they're getting killed. >> brenda: john, your prediction? >> the greatest manager, sir alex is retiring. i think the stock. if you want sports, cable vision, up 20% in a year. >> jonas? >> i do not think of it. >> brenda: okay. what is your prediction? >> $45 million heisted from atm's in a global operation, which means the magnetic strip
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will be on its way out, which is good for the company that makes the atm machines. >> brenda: gary b? >> too far, too fast. i'm bearish on it. >> brenda: all right. and neil is up next. >> not everything is big in texas. you think that's really why president obama went to texas? i'm neil cavuto. fox on top of an over the top irony. president obama choosing the boomg state of texas to pitch his new program to get americans back to work. e same texas with no income tax, little red tape, lowe unemployment rate than the national average. forget don't mess with texas. maybe the president should start doing things like texas. ben stein, charles payne, dagen mcdowell, adam. dagen? >> giddy-up! come on. the president -- >> i like ben stein to do just that, you

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